EX Jehovah's Witnesses's topics - tribe.net

waves to all those who have enraged Jehovah and his seven bowls of anger

2008-08-05T22:49:59Z

Hey sinners! Got space in your handbasket for me? :-)
I am 35. Have been gone since I was 22. Most of my family is behind, so the whole shunning thing is in play. Would love to find a community here!

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 6 replies

The Bookstudy Groups are no more!

2008-08-05T21:49:21Z

Interesting development! Wonder if there is too much legal liability for meetings to be held in homes these days?

Letter from the GB:

To be READ AT THE CONCLUSION OF THE WATCHTOWER STUDY OF THE WEEK OF APRIL 21 - 27, 2008:

Dear Brothers:

As indicated in the Bible at 1 Corinthians 7:31, "the scene of this world is changing." Each passing day confirms that these words are inspired and true. As the "great tribulation" approaches, Satan demonstrates increasing rage against us. -- Matthew 24:21; 1 Peter 5:8, 9; Revelation 12:17.

The Governing Body understands very well the increasing pressures that confront you, the Lord's beloved sheep. Just like the Governing Body of the first century, we do not want you to bear any more burdens than those that are necessary. (Acts 15:6, 28) Consequently, after engaging in a great amount of meditation and prayer, we have decided to adopt measures to alleviate those burdens by modifying the weekly program of meetings. (Matthew 11:28-30)

Beginning January 1, 2009, the Congregation Book Study will be combined with the Theocratic Ministry School and Service Meeting. No longer will it be known as the Congregation Book Study. Instead, it will be called the Congregation Bible Study. Following a song and prayer, the length of the study will be twenty-five minutes, and it will be conducted similar to the way it is now. It will be led by a rotation of qualified elders. Next there will come the Theocratic Ministry School, which will last thirty minutes. Then, after another song, the Service Meeting will begin, and it will last thirty-five minutes. The meeting will conclude with a song and prayer. Combined in this way, these meetings will total an hour and forty five minutes, including the prayers and songs.

Meetings for field service will be according to the current system, and will consist of small groups. Later we will be sending additional information about the Congregation Bible Studies and meetings for field service.

This change in our weekly program offers several benefíts. For example, making less trips for congregation meetings will save much time as well as fuel which in numerous countries is more and more expensive. But there is a benefit of even greater significance. It will offer more time for the important responsibility of Bible study on a personal and family level.

In effect, the changes in the weekly program will allow us to strengthen the spirituality of the family, devoting one night to Family Worship. Family heads must assume the responsibility that Jehovah has given to them of leading their households in a significant weekly study of the Bible. (Deuteronomy 6:6, 7) And single brothers and sisters who do not have family responsibilities should use this time for their personal study of the Bible. It is essential to be "buying out the opportune time" and to strengthen one another as we consider the events that are soon to occur. (Ephesians 5:15, 16) The day of Jehovah is indeed approaching rapidly. (Zephaniah 1:14; 2 Peter 3:12) So it is more urgent than ever that we make use of the time that remains to build up one another upon our "most holy faith." (Jude 20)

Let's make good use of these changes while we keep on following the lead of the Great Shepherd who guides us to grassy pastures where we find peace and refreshment. (Psalm 23:2, 3) We pray Jehovah will keep on protecting you and giving you spiritual strength in these difficult times. With Christian love,

Your brothers,

Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses

P.S. to the presiding overseer:

Once the letter has been read in all the congregations that share the same Kingdom Hall, please place this letter on the announcements board, where it should remain for two weeks and then filed.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 13 replies

randomness i heard at a pot luck last week

2008-07-29T20:15:24Z

so this dude dies and goes to heaven....
jesus meets him at the gate and starts to show him around....

'here we have the dorms, feel free to decorate as you like...... oh! these are the tennis courts, there are always enough tennis balls.... and here is the cafeteria, don't worry, everything is free!'

jesus guides the dude to this one VERY long hallway with a big heavy door closed tightly... he turns to the dude, puts his finger over his lips and whispers 'shhhhhhh'
he opens the door, motions the man in, and closes the door tightly behind him.
they walk quietly down the long corridor and get to another door, heavy as the last, and walk just as quietly through it.

once the door is closed jesus continues...
'here is the pottery room... there is always someone around who knows what they're doing if you care to learn...'

'uh... jesus?' interrupts the dude

'what's up?' jesus asks

'well... i was just wondering... whats up with that hallway? why'd we have to be so quiet?'

'oh... thats where the jehovah's witnesses stay, they think they're the only ones here'

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

Of interest to Battlestar Galactica fans

2008-06-21T23:44:38Z

A WARNING
to anyone who hasnt seen the latest episode and plans to,
SPOILERS FOLLOW.
You might want to wait until after you've seen it to read this topic.

My brother's GF found this on the BG wiki. I think it's likely that this is, in fact, just a coincidence... but if so, its a pretty damn big one, what with the apocalyptic imagery and everything else thats described:
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Revelations#Earth

"The area the landing party arrives at appears to be the Brooklyn side of New York City. The landing party is next to a broad river and across that river to the left is a wide bay. The other shore appears to be the edge of Lower Manhattan with a destroyed skyline of buildings. The camera pans to the right over what is ostensibly the East River until the last two seconds of the episode, where at the far right edge of the screen stands a wrecked structure with which appears to be a heavily abbreviated roadway. It appears to be the East Tower (Brooklyn side) of the Brooklyn Bridge. However, it should be noted that the information on this is incomplete. For instance, many speculations as to the gas giant that Kara Thrace sees in her journey from Earth (as first explained in "He That Believeth In Me") claimed that the giant was Jupiter, when this was later disproved.

IN WHAT MAY BE A COINCIDENCE [emphasis mine], not far from the Eastern approaches to the real-life Brooklyn Bridge in Brooklyn, New York and close to the northern shore of the borough, there is a building owned by the Jehovah's Witnesses. It is called "The Watchtower". The relevance is that the song that the Final Four heard is actually "All Along the Watchtower" by Bob Dylan. Further, the building is situated very near if not the exact place the landing party stands at.

The landing area actually appears to be the Temple of Aurora, thus bookending the episode. When the episode begins, Lee Adama is looking up an illustration of the Temple in Pythia's book. It shows a dome structure near a body of water. As the episode closes on Earth, the landing party appears to be at the ruins of a domed structure by a body of water, as described by the illustration. "

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 0 replies

So yeah it's been 8 years JW free but...

2008-06-19T14:49:19Z

Do ya'll ever get weird unreal and undoubtably unfounded stabs of guilt while living your JW free - but beatiful and honest lives? I feel ike it bites me in the ass at the weirdest and most unexpected times....J"know?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 10 replies

Blingdom hall....

2008-06-08T23:46:33Z

I'd like to do something this next year, I know Tracker was stoked on it, even if it's just an xjw parade, I dunno, walkin' round singing K. melody parodies, any ideas?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 13 replies

Good for a laugh

2008-06-07T19:20:57Z

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/80228

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

Casting

2008-06-04T00:03:00Z

So, anyway, I was recently asked by a casting company to send in an audition tape for a show on Logo (the gay network). I did discuss being an ex-jw. I wonder that if I do make it on the show, if I will used as an example of how far off the road to life I went. Will I be an illustration of what happens when brothers are tempted by the world and fall into all sorts of sin??? Anyway, here is a link to more info on the show if anyone is interested...

http://rupaulsdragrace.logoonline.com

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

I am thankful for this Tribe

2008-05-09T04:24:25Z

It has been an important tool of Synchronicity. I have found the love of my life here.
After living my whole life in Arkansas, I will be moving to Oregon to be with an amazing
woman, Mandy, whom I met here. In May, I will be a resident of the west coast.
I look greatly forward to meeting more of you ex-JW's in person and creating
wonderful friendships. I am more joyous than my vocabulary could describe.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 9 replies

Happy Birthday To ME!

2008-05-06T22:01:25Z

Yes it is my birthday! You can see my astrological chart on my profile!
;-)

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

A Movie I Want to See

2008-04-30T06:30:56Z

Hey a friend of mine sent me this link to a movie playing at the Tribeca Film Festival. I want to get a copy!

http://www.tribecafilmfestival.org/filmguide/16736096.html

"Director Niels Arden Oplev rises to the challenge of representing the Witnesses, who are well known for their door-to-door proselytizing but perhaps not so well understood. He does so with complexity instead of the easy demonizing that such stories often resort to, and he compassionately portrays all that Sara will lose if she chooses to leave the congregation. He transforms Sara from a zealot into a thoughtful and brave young woman, all the while alluding to the often mercurial nature of teenage girls. The overall cast brings sensitivity to the varied characters, with Rosalinde Mynster giving an amazing and sensitive performance as Sara, a girl who is both serious and wise beyond her years."

--David Kwok

Director Niels Arden Oplev's Statement:

"In April 2006, shortly after the opening of We Shall Overcome, I happened to read a newspaper article about this girl Tabita's upbringing in a family deeply committed to the beliefs and standards of the religious sect Jehovah's Witnesses. Her fate and “journey” made a great impression on me and the things she had gone through touched me in both an emotional and intellectual way. I arranged meetings with Tabita, who is still in her early 20s, and here she spoke accurately and openly. Every detail was still crystal clear in her memory. The way she talked about her life was so honest and captivating that my fingers were itching to get started on the writing. The script follows Tabita's story as closely as possible, and even though bits and pieces have been added and removed, Tabita's story was in itself so well composed that the film all in all diverges only very little from the reality that she described to us."

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 11 replies

Wow this seems Kinda weird

2008-04-30T06:28:39Z

hey all you Lovely strong freaky people!
So a little background - I was raised a JW in Ny till I was 16 and then I left and later got DFshipped- all my family except one bro is still hardcore into it. This was 8 years ago. I spend almost no time thinking about it and spent a year or twoat first bitter and hating and now I think most days I have moved on and then BAM somthing happens, someone says something, or I see a JW and get this sudden rush of well, CRazyness, almost nasuea. All my freinds and family now( non-jw of course) are super sympathetic but really have no idea how incredibly F@#$ed up the whole thing is. Just reading about it now was like a cold splash in the face. Thats all- I feel like maybe talking with some peepes who Actually know Exactly and maybe hearing how you guys dealt/deal with it in a positive and wonderful way- not pretending it never happened but also not just being negative. wow. I am gonna have trouble going to sleep- I would love to hear from you all! Gnite!
Rinna
ps: Does anyone else have a really twisted sense of humor because of this? !!! I consider it one of the benefits of this background!

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

Jeff Foxworthy

2008-04-12T23:39:04Z

Some of you may have heard these before but they're pretty funny. I still plead guilty to the highlighter fetish...

YOU MIGHT BE A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS IF....

If 'pioneer' is not a stereo, 'new light' is not something in the house wares department, and 'tract' has nothing to do with land or farming.

If you know when Nisan 14 of the Jewish calendar lands in the Gregorian calendar from year to year, and yet you commonly forget your own birthday.

If 'Memorial' isn't in May.

If you spent days at a baseball stadium, never saw a ball, and didn't even have a beer.

If you think 'formal clothing' and 'civic center' belong in the same sentence.

If you wash windows or cars for a living and still own five suits.

If you think nothing of letting your friends stop by to use the bathroom.

If you know the cleanliness of every coffee shop for four towns around.

If you think 2-door vehicles aren't really cars.

If you go to Home Depot and go down the aisle where doors are displayed and you feel compelled to knock on them.

If you can't buy a pair of shoes without thinking about how comfortable they will need to be while walking residential streets in 95-degree heat.

If you have a tendency to refer to books by color instead of by title.

If you have a shelf just for 192-page books.

If you can't pick up a book, or anything else to read, without picking up a pencil or highlighter too.

If you think it is complimentary to refer to someone as 'a study.'

If you have 'get-togethers' rather than 'parties.'

If, after one of such 'get-togethers' at your home, your house is not a mess and you have more food than when you started.

If you realize things are getting worse, and you're thrilled.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 6 replies

Request for Referral to a Therapist?

2008-04-10T18:12:55Z

Hi Everyone,

I have been doing some work with a life coach and a therapist for the last couple years. I realize that I might need someone who specializes in working with with Ex JW's on the inevitable "STUFF" that comes up from being an EX JW? Ideally they would be located in the Bay Area but not required.

To be clear I am looking more for clinical assistance than I am spiritual aid.

Thanks,

Thomas

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

cult experience videos

2008-04-03T03:08:44Z

How to start your own cult:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnNSe5XYp6E

Ex-Jehovah's Witness, Therapist discusses MIND CONTROL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vISWAgy_emg

Rev. Moon: King of America
http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6528297a9ppTgRm

Interesting cartoon about mormon core beliefs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy0d1HbItOo

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 0 replies

Are Sundays Tough for You?

2008-04-02T02:25:04Z

Hi Everyone,

Here is an interesting phenomenon I have noticed in the two years+ I have been out of the Org...
Sunday is by far the most difficult day of the week for me. Spiritually emotionally logistically.

I find myself feeling scarce, unlovable, frightened by bad news, and unbalanced in general.

I was pretty deep "IN" the Org my entire life. Baptized at 15, my mom & older siblings were all regular pioneers, I was a Continuous Auxiliary pioneer throughout high school and a regular pioneer till I got married at the age of 20. I was a MS at 20 Elder at 30.

So Sundays typically looked like family day, study watchtower with wife, field service, shepherding calls, congregation meeting, Elders meetings etc... Fellowship with friends and or hosting that Sunday's speaker. Stuff like that, all day.

I feel a tangible vacuum of connection and spiritual activity on Sunday's now. Yesterday was especially tough.

Any thought's or feedback on this?

Thomas

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

Does this resonate???

2008-03-07T00:52:46Z

Hi Everyone,

I found this email I sent my girlfriend the week I left the JW's. I was feeling so guilty and afraid. My life is so different now. A little background info. I was an elder (service overseer) who was married for 15 years. I was also in love with a married woman who was in an open relationship. I decided I needed to get the hell out of dodge after I submitted my letter to the elders telling them I was done with the org. so I was on my way to London to celebrate NYE for the first time in High Style!

So here goes:

Hi Angel,

This is a chronicle of my feelings and experience in Europe on this trip. (I expect this to become an ongoing thread)

Friday Morning Dec 30, 2005:
3:50 am
I awake & get ready to go to the airport... I check email & discover that a reservation request I submitted for a room in London has responded favorably...50£ per night...
4:30am:
I leave Santa Rosa...on the drive to SFO I listen to the CD my Angel has given me...It really touched my heart, and the memories of our day together come flooding back in waves... waves like only the ocean can produce during a rip current... I am overwhelmed with emotions...Love, guilt, anxiety, warmth, admiration, gratitude, respect, appreciation, sense of loss that is overwhelming (my previous life, the only one I have known is gone now), anticipation of the future..., excitement, curiosity, nervous anticipation, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR. The FEAR is overwhelming and all encompassing like no emotion I have ever felt in my life.

Fear the love of my life, my beautiful, innocent, loving, and capable wife will be forever damaged by my actions, and lack of strength to be honest with her, ( and myself) about my true nature sooner. Fear Mike with pull the veto and I will be lost on the river Styx between worlds. Fear I am not worthy of the grand opportunity that has been opened up to me to live true to my nature. Fear I will fail, and not be worthy of the beautiful, open, loving, and accepting people that offer a whole new world to me. Fear I will betray the sacred trust of confidentiality that I shoulder. Fear my Angel, Karin will tell me "I have found some one else Thomas, and there is no more room in my life for you". Fear that members of my congregation who I so fearlessly, loved, shepherded, worshiped with, and guided, for so many years; are stumbled by my lack of faith in their value system, and pained to lose me as much as I am pained to lose them. Fear I will not be able to function in life without all of my friends & family whom I have lost all contact with...Forever. Fear I am just not gonna pull it off.

These feelings of fear and doubt are completely foreign to me as I am normally, confident, capable, in control, and decisive about my life.

So I do the only thing I can do...I cry, and I let the feelings flow THROUGH me...And desperately try to let them go as quickly as they come. I am successful for the moment....

THOMAS

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

in service...

2008-03-04T00:29:58Z

here's a question for everyone:

what's the silliest thing that's happened while you were in field service? me? there's the time i started talking about music videos b/c the kids were watching mtv. or the times i ran into friends or teachers from school. the top one though was when i said "thank you please come again" after placing a set w/ some woman. i had just started working @ mc D's & had their meme stuck in my head. i wish i could have said something cool like "all your base are belong to us" or "gonads and strife", but no...

"thank you come again"

anyone else do dumb stuff on some stranger's porch early in the morning???

j

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 21 replies

Work ethic

2008-02-29T18:08:11Z

I remember being in the org, and how everyone went on and on, about how we had a better work ethic than the rest of the world. That seemed like a big thing then, and I really believed it.
But now as an adult that's been ousted for a few years, I can look in retrospect, and I've noticed that JW's aren't as flexible with their work schedules.
I briefly dated this lady, that manages an Aldi's in a neighboring town. We where talking about this very subject. One of her employee's, is a JW, and he wants off three days a week. For the meetings. He doesn't finish his job on closing, and just has an over all poor work ethic. She thinks he has a problem with women in authority, and says that he walks around with a superior air about him. He thinks he's better than everyone etc.
She sent me an email yesterday, (not sure why she wrote me the email) but she told me that he is getting fired Tuesday, which is tomorrow. They just can't handle his poor work ethics anymore.
I can't remember having poor work ethics, but then again, I guess I ended up being the rebel eh?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

Mormies

2008-02-27T23:45:01Z

MmmmK.

When I was younger, I had some really good friends that were mormons. We had a lot in common with me being a Witness and everything. I am still friends with a few of these folks on facebook.com.

My Betty Page profile picture I have on here, was also my profile picture on facebook. I had 2 mormons send me an email and ask me to remove it because it was offensive and it was "pornography" they cared not to see.

AAAHH can you believe that? Pornography???? A naked woman?

guh. It's just that Ultra-Christian, thinking it's so weird to me now. It makes no sense.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 5 replies

Frustration!

2008-02-25T17:08:36Z

This is gonna be a long one but I thought I'd share with those who'd understand. I'm posting below, an email conversation which, I think you'll find interesting. I sent my sis & bro-in-law a message a few weeks ago just to let them know they're in my thoughts...nice reply I got...

(names are changed to protect the guilty)

Hi Mary and Tom,

I know you aren't able to correspond with me but I think about you
every day and want you to know that I am doing well.

Since I don't think it's wrong to tell you that I care about you, I
thought I'd drop you a line or two. No reply needed, just sending my
love.

B

The Reply...

B,

Thanks,

Mary really didn't want me to respond, but I felt compelled to. PLEASE don't
say anything to anyone, it would upset Mary. You know how stalwart she is.

We do worry about you. When so many ex-witnesses go off the deep end, doing
things that even the worldly look down upon and can be so self destructive.

We also worry about Sally, Stuart, and Betty. You just hurt them so
much when you try to contact them. Sally especially. If you want what is
best for them, let them be. Sally and Betty are happily married. You
are the one that walked away. You taught them to be true to Jehovah. You
can't expect them to turn away from him without destroying them. Jehovah is
their only solid thing. The only thing they can depend on. They see both
their parents turning away.

You know that once you are brought up from birth as a Jehovahs Witness, very
few leave with positive results. Maybe you are an exception, but most I have
known have gone away to destructive practices and end unhappy.

Whether you believe in Jehovahs Witnesses or not, you know that for most, it
is all they have. When they leave, they don't have a solid foundation to
build on. We meet ex witnesses in the service and at work. Very few have a
good life. Maybe this is a result of the strong control that being a
Jehovahs Witness has. But it still is a fact.

Just let them be. They will find their own way.

Thanks,

Tom

My Response...

Tom,

Thanks for "worrying" about me.

One thing I can tell you is that I have NOT gone off the deep end, you may rest any "worried" minds at ease on that score. I am a stable, productive, HAPPY woman - happier and more sane than I was my entire life in the org! I recently heard from an old friend who has chosen, with her family, to leave the organization (and is also a very happy, sane, productive person) that there were quite a few untrue rumors that had been circulated about me - which, I am sure my children heard. If they choose to believe lies rather than ask me about my life directly, whose fault is that? They have no need to "worry" about me.

I live alone. I have good friends who care about me. I am productive. I am a spiritual person and take my spiritual life very seriously, and I apply the principles that Christ taught when he was on this earth. The only difference is, I began to question (and now no longer believe) that the organization is the one and only path to a righteous life.

I do not feel it's my place to tell ANYONE that they should leave the organization. I would certainly never tell my children to do so. The only thing I feel is wrong is for my children to misapply what I taught them. When I was in the hospital having surgery last winter, not one family member (outside of Michelle) bothered to call to check on how I was doing much less, stop to see if I needed anything. My "worldly" friends were the ones who took care of me and quite frankly, it didn't leave a very good impression on them as to what kind of Christians JW's are. I did NOT raise my children to behave toward a parent with such complete disregard.

I have met MANY former JW's since I left the org. and the amazing thing I'VE found is that outside of a very few - ALL of them are happy, healthy, sane, productive people who DON'T sit around bewailing the ills of the organization. We've simply moved on with life, knowing that our doors will remain open to our loved ones but that our loved ones have rejected US not the other way around.

I think it IS important that people realize that IF they find that they are unable to support the belief system they were raised with, there IS life beyond the organization. They don't have to be alone - they don't have to be afraid - that whole "life being a disaster" if you leave the org is nothing but propaganda designed instill fear.

Believing differently from someone you love is no excuse for rejecting them.

You and I have, in the past, had many conversations about your own doubts. I've come to realize that some of those doubts were not unfounded. I didn't arrive at my viewpoint by reading anti-JW literature - I came to this realization when my mother was dying. I began to really put my beliefs to the test and there were just too many holes that I could no longer ignore them.

I didn't make my choice to leave the org. based on anything more than no longer being able to live a lie. And for THAT decision, I have been rejected.

I will love my children until the day I die and the truth is, I have NOT turned my back on them. They are in my thoughts every day. Any attempts I make to contact them are met with anger and rebuff. No, the organization has created a system where fear of shunning is what keeps people there - it is, in fact, worse than the fear of eternal hellfire and damnation which the other churches use. And it works.

I'm sorry my family has forsaken me. That is their choice. I didn't leave them - I left a belief system that I no longer agree with. I had no choice but to live with integrity for what I believe to be right.

My heart is eternally open to my family but it is a choice they must make for themselves.

B

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 12 replies

pittsburgh, anyone?

2008-02-18T23:29:02Z

If anyone in here is currently located-in or soon-to-be visiting the Pittsburgh, PA area, and has at least a passing interest in JW conspiracy theories, i have an interesting and potentially illuminating proposal. I need some info from Allegheny County regarding land ownership history, and im finding it hard to justify paying $50 online for one records search.

i will gladly line up all the pertinent info like location, what to request, etc, and reimburse duplication fees and postage. let me know if youre interested, i'll hit you back with details.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 0 replies

job & the lolcats...

2008-02-13T03:59:27Z

lolcat bible:
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

job in lolcats:
http://www.lolcatbible.com/index.php?title=Job_1

6 Teh ayngles wented to seez Ceiling Cat, and Saitin wented two.7 Ceiling Cat axt Saitin, "Wher wuz u?" Saitin saied "Oh, hai. I'z wuz in ur earth, wawking up and down uponz it."

jesus & the bear:
http://bp1.blogger.com/_B7voD6O9Ea8/R45zsClBd3I/AAAAAAAAAUI/ueL8ng49yZg/s1600-h/jesus+and+the+bear+.jpg

so yeah...reason why i haven't really had much to say lately has been that we've had to break camp due to carbon monoxide poisoning...along the way, i remembered job. when i was younger, i remember asking why yhvh would allow satan to mess w/ job. she said that it was to prove his omniscience...he knew that he'd win the bet before satan put down his money. hmm...touche mum...

this time, i'm stunned that they had an ongoing conversation in the first place. hmm...that sorta cracks the idea on omniscience...why would yhvh ask where satan was if he already knew? also...reading the lolcat version is much more entertaining than the masonic bible version i got last year when i completed my 3rd degree...btw: i'm doing eastern star this weekend...so excited about the whole thing. masonry seems to be a much bigger container than jw's. it's not a religion & that's cool w/ me b/c i'm on a hair trigger when it comes to xtianity...

anyway, does anyone know the deal w/ the bottle gourd? why's it so important in the story? also, has anyone else on the list gone back to the bible stories w/ a critical eye? looking back, the stories aren't all i remembered.

i love the dore' illustrations:
http://www.danshort.com/bible/

i wish the green new world translation had pictures like those. i probably would have stayed awake a bit more...

maybe not...

j

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 2 replies

WTF...

2008-02-09T19:28:55Z

Hi Everyone,

I just posted this email about my JW, ex wife to one of my community email lists who know my circumstances well.

I just found out this morning that last week my ex wife had our dog, Scout, put to sleep without my knowledge.
Due to our living circumstances Scout stayed with my ex, Kristin, after our separation in December 2005. Eventually we agreed that Scout would live with Kristin permanently and that we would share financial responsibility for his well being. We had a nice house in the suburbs with a big yard, it seemed the best choice for him. I am still confident that it was.

Scout was a great dog! I met him when he was a puppy (about 1 year old) at the Alameda County Animal Shelter in 1995. I was just going there to figure out what was required to adopt a pet and he just kept looking at me through the cage. I took him, and several other dogs for walk that day. Scout was immediately connected to me and what we were doing as a team. I adopted him that day and had to make special arrangements for his care for several weeks as I did not have a suitable home for him yet. It was so worth all the effort!

Scout was a great companion and friend. He was terrific retriever and I used to play fetch & Frisbee with him almost every day. We did a lot of camping and off road 4 wheeling together over the years. For years he was the only living being that witnessed my quiet desperation living in a lifestyle and religious system that was not authentic for me. The rest of the world saw my happy face pretending everything was great.

In recent years he physically declined and suffered from bad hips that greatly reduced his mobility.

I have attached a link to his picture that is posted on my tribe account.

http://people.tribe.net/tb_swoon/photos/0f99ac50-3e28-43b0-a026-1b0b23334400

I am feeling a bit overwhelmed emotionally right now. Sort of in shock I guess.

Kristin had promised to let me know when she was going to make the decision to put him down. I got an email from her a couple weeks ago indicating it might be soon. I reminded her that she had promised me the opportunity to say goodbye. The last few days I had made several attempts to contact her for an update. I was suspecting that she had decided to put him down without telling me. Kristin has refused every opportunity to see me face to face since February 2006.

I finally got her on the phone today and she told me she had him put down last week. She says that the reason she did not inform me was because her father has been in the hospital with colon cancer and she had to make a quick decision.

I guess I have to take her at her word on this, but it just feels like she did it this way so she wouldn't have to deal with seeing me. So I am having a lot of emotions around the loss of Scout and the whole shunning thing with the church today.

I am feeling very numb right now. I am not sure what to ask for from my community at this point.

Much Love,

Thomas Boutte'

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

Is this tribe thoroughly dead?

2008-02-07T05:24:30Z

How's everyone doin? Anybody here?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 14 replies

JW's, flood, etc., thoroughly trashed...

2007-12-19T20:34:20Z

http://corior.blogspot.com/
This guy is brilliant. I've talked to him once or twice on the phone....

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

teen jw dies...really...

2007-12-06T17:13:09Z

Teen Jehovah's Witness Leukemia Patient Dies After Refusing Blood Transfusion

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313683,00.html

saw this during the week & wanted to see if anyone else saw this...what thoughts are there on this? anyone personally know any "i choose death" stories??

also, my jw nephew just recently had a kidney transplant & my brother allowed it. i thought that transplants were under the same banner as transfusions...is this part of the "new light"???

j

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 7 replies

The Crazy

2007-12-03T04:22:35Z

How many crazy people... I mean really crazy.... did your congregation have?
One brother spoke with a British accent and he had never been out of the San Francisco, not even on vacation....

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 14 replies

My JW family is NOT supportive... do any of you have support from your families who are in the 'truth'?

2007-12-02T21:46:52Z

My partner asked me to marry him a few weeks ago. I thought that perhaps my dad would be happy, even if i dont end up having a conventional wedding. I thought maybe he'd stop thinking i was a fuck up. My family said I was going to ruin his life. My father actually said that he felt sorry for Warren (maybe they all just hate that i wont allow him to see... find 'the truth'?)

I guess i should have known...

The doctors have been telling me I am infertile for 5 years. I went in for exploratory surgery to find out why, they sent me home (before doing a thing) after they got my blood work back... because I'm pregnant. I thought that it was the most amazing blessing, I thought perhaps my Dad would be pleased that he would finally have a grandchild. Guess not. My whole family says that I make them sick and they are so pissed that we put our wedding off until 2009,

is my family unusually mangled? or do you all get treated like Satan?

sorry for unloading but i can't help but be pissed. not to mention i am way moody.

should i just accept that they are deceived and will likely think i am bad forever?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 18 replies

Woah

2007-12-02T18:25:15Z

My mom just called to say "Happy Birthday"

Yes, this is the same devout JW mom.........it was both surreal and very cool.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 6 replies

The Bell!!!

2007-12-01T16:05:55Z

Travis and I were talking about this the other night. Did you ever get the bell rung for your talk going over?

I think this is just hilarious, some brothers are a little bell happy if ya know what I mean at 5minutes 1 sec ... DING!!!!!

I didn't get the bell, I timed my talks...thank you very much.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 12 replies

...friends....

2007-11-28T23:10:10Z

So, I got a call yesterday from a sister that I used to be really tight with until she moved away, she doesn't know that I am no longer a witness. Since I am not disfellowshipped or disassociated, more of a walk away and pretty sure I could be marked as bad association... should I tell her the next time we talk or let her live in her dream that I am still a faithful witness... is that lying by avoiding it?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

what now?

2007-11-28T22:36:47Z

random question,
did anyone in this tribe leave the JWs for a different religion in Christendom?
or is everyone individually spiritual, with their own non denomination beliefs ?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 12 replies

JW child abuse national news!

2007-11-22T20:40:52Z

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21917798/

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

scripture Jay-dubs use for disfellowshipping actually proves thier method wrong

2007-11-07T17:55:28Z

I don't know what made me start looking things up over the weekend but I found a website with some ex-JWs stories thought I'd share that first before posting the actual topic.

http://www.jwfiles.com/jws-leaving/jws-leaving.htm

anyway, like I was saying in the subject line quoted from their own bible. 2 Corinthians 2:6 "This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man, 7 so that, on the contrary now, YOU should kindly forgive and comfort [him], that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad. 8 Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him. 9 For to this end also I write to ascertain the proof of YOU, whether YOU are obedient in all things."

"...that somehow such a man may not be swallowed up by his being overly sad" How many people have committed suicide after being disfellowshipped or disassociated? Granted many do kill themselves while STILL JWs too but the whole shunning process JWs do can't help, besides as verse 8 says right at the beginning "Therefore I exhort YOU to confirm YOUR love for him" (Capitalization thanks to NWT) how is shunning a person confirming your love for them?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

tribe meet up at KH?

2007-11-07T06:41:09Z

hee hee

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

recent Awake

2007-10-31T07:09:29Z

One of my friends who is also an ex-JW gave me the recent Awake magazine. Her mom is a JW (says she is one of the anointed actually) and gave it to Hayley for me because she knows I have a child. The magazine is on protecting kids from sexual abuse. I cried so hard while reading the articles. Where were the elders and the ones that were suppose to protect me while I was being sexually abused by a man in the congregation? Where was my support? The elders had nothing to say to me. I wonder if things have finally started to improve because so many of us have stepped forward? Unfortunately it is too late for me... I will never step foot in another Kingdom Hall again.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 2 replies

We've lost one of our best. :(

2007-10-15T21:07:00Z

hey guys...
i'm so sorry, i haven't been around here lately or been 'moderating' in any way, and now i'm here because i have very sad news.

kyle "TRACKER" brown has passed away.

he died approximately sunday night, september 23rd of unknown causes, though it seems so far to be heart-related.

all last week i had a growing feeling of concern... we were in regular close contact, but i hadn't heard back from him and repeated calls started going straight to voicemail. by wednesday i was really worried and by thursday i called our mutual friend cory (also an ex-jw who knew tracker since they were kids) and asked him to check on him. somehow, and i can't explain it, i was unable to check myself... like there was an unseen force holding me back. thursday night i had nightmares of finding him. finally on friday cory was able to go over and sadly, my nightmares turned out to be true. cory found tracker in his livingroom, dead for some days.

i hope this isn't too much information.... i've been answering questions for days now and have gotten somewhat numb.

here's the thing: tracker was, in every respect possible, larger than life. he knew full well that living life the way he did would most likely cut it short. but he was ok with that. in fact, he was more than ok... we had so many incredible conversations over the years, but more recently he told me in all sincerity that he could go at any time and be content knowing he'd lived a hell of a life.

of course, i wasn't happy to hear that, for my own selfish needs, but i was happy to hear that from him. how many people do any of us know who have found their way to that kind of true peace and contentment? we've had more and bigger demons to fight than most, and he was no exception to that (he was being groomed for bethel as a child!!). but he worked his ass off to come to terms with it all. he had his moments of darkness. it's inevitable since, bottom line, we really just don't know what the truth is. but truly, he was happy, and he was loved, and he was loving.

tracker taught me what real unconditional love REALLY means. greatest gift i've ever gotten.

so, i send my thanks into the universe for having known him, my big brother, my friend.

Kyle "Tracker" Brown - 2/2/1971 ~ 9/23/2007 - may you continue to kick ass wherever you are. i love you.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 7 replies

demonized star wars stuff

2007-10-11T03:15:22Z

hey hows it goin fellow ex jovees
anybody remember how demonized the force was? i accepted a light saber as a "friendship gift" on my ninth birthday. Later than same evening the glass door to our shower mysteriously shattered while my dad was taking a shower. i guess i shouldn't say mysteriously--it had to be those pesky demons, that or possibly the fact that my 300 lb dad was showering in a tiny mobile home shower. We had invited them in because i accepted a gift on my birthday. Anyway i had to get rid of the light saber.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 7 replies

holidays

2007-09-28T15:55:21Z

I try to celebrate Christmas and stuff, but I've found that I really don't care... I can take it or leave it. It's been an issue with various significant others who are really into it. Don't get me wrong, I like to give and receive gifts on Christmas, but the whole decorating the tree/hanging the wreath/singing the songs..really doesn't do it for me.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 14 replies

demonized...

2007-09-27T22:16:05Z

here's a question: did anyone have to give up movies, music, or comics because they "seemed demonic"? sure, there was the whole smurf scare, but does anyone remember the assembly talk "beware of music that debases"? there was the whole "backwards masking" scare where musicians were supposedly putting in subliminal messages from satan. i had to get rid of the first eurhythmics tape & a bunch of hardcore stuff like corrosion of conformity because it just wasn't "becoming of a x-tian" to own such items.

then there was the whole deal w/ comic books. i watered this one elder's lawn while he was @ some other assembly giving atalk. when he came back, i got paid. i spent most of it on comics (kitty pryde & wolverine, iceman limited series, & a few others). my folks were pretty bent about the covers & told him about it. we had a brief tete a tete about the whole thing where he said if he knew i was going to use the money for comics he wouldn't have picked me in the first place. yeah, i was pretty fried about it back then. when i found out that he died a few years back, i remembered the whole thing & laughed.

anyway, was anyone else warned about demons???

j

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 33 replies

Ex jw meet up @BM

2007-09-24T00:32:21Z

Help me pick a time and place!!
I'm thinking thurs. @ center camp?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 6 replies

by birth or conversion...

2007-09-22T05:24:24Z

I noticed there are 75 people on this tribe... How many were raised in this religion from birth, and how many converted and then left? My parents converted in their early 20s, before they had me, so I didn't really have a choice... Just curious about the figure.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 12 replies

who what where when

2007-09-14T19:46:03Z

This year was my seventh making it out to Black Rock City .And every single time, I've seen at least a dozen things in the Who/What/ Where/When thing that I wanted to check out (and never went to a single one). One of the things this year was at The Messiah Complex, it was a sermon on letting go of one's religious beliefs. And even though I let mine go about 15 years ago, I still wanted to check it out. But then someone gave me 2 Charlie Brown comics to read and I just hung out at eggchair's bar. Did anyone go to the Messiah Complex?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 0 replies

C.E.A.S.E. victims/survivors of sexual, physical and spiritual abuse

2007-08-16T04:45:56Z

committed by employees and volunteers of the world-wide Seventh-day Adventist Church. Devoted to educating church leadership about the prevalence of these abuses within the denomination, we want to bring about changes to church policy in order to protect others from the devastation we experienced.

Through networking with other victims/survivors, we can be more effective agents for change within the denomination. Through learning that our stories are not isolated, WE can become less isolated emotionally
which will have an exponential impact on our individual healing processes.

*Background Information*
Abuse is made possible by secrecy and shame; healing can be made possible by the honesty, courage, pain and anger we can channel toward reaching the following
goals:
-To protect others.
-To support the establishment of denominational policies that effectively address the healing processes of members, victims/survivors and perpetrators.
-Turn the Seventh-day Adventist Church into an UN-safe place for perpetrators by educating members about prevention and protection. Although abuse happens in every denomination, C.E.A.S.E. is limited to the SDA denomination for several reasons:
-Adventists hold in common many unique doctrines and beliefs, often striving to be "different" and set apart.
-By choice or perceived necessity, many Adventists have isolated themselves and their institutions from the larger community of Christianity which has resulted in a prevailing belief that the SDA church is not susceptible to abuses plaguing other denominations.
-The lack of effective administrative procedures for helping primary and secondary victims/survivors heal from abuse within the denomination has resulted in the silencing of victims/survivors who are too intimidated
and traumatized to speak out publicly about the injustices that they have suffered at the hands of "God's ordained".
-Some victims/survivors were betrayed by the SDA doctrines that were used by perpetrators to manipulate and control them within the context of Adventism.
-As victims/survivors, we need a vehicle to call for change within the SDA denomination and a venue for our voices that will be received by conventional Adventist organizations, institutions and publications as only a publication dedicated to "Adventist" sensitive issues is capable of.

http://www.advocateweb.com/cease/

http://sda-watch.stumbleupon.com/

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 4 replies

Burning, burning, burning...

2007-08-09T02:23:50Z

Hey all,

Sorry I haven't posted on her in what seems lik a millenia, but unfortunately I've had some family complications that had knocked me out for a few months. Suffice to say that things are on the right track thankfully.

I really wanted to do the theme camp thing this year but due to these complications I couldn't. I will however still be going to BRC this year and leave in about two weeks.

Now I know that Darcy our beloved moderator (and my beloved sister) is going to be there as well. I am curious to see if anyone lese will be there too. If so we need to make sure we can get together and have a night of drunken witnessing!

So who's down?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

Anyone here go to burning man?

2007-08-07T19:52:21Z

Perhaps an XJW camp next year?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 51 replies

Hey! Happy B-Day Travis!!!

2007-08-04T23:33:08Z

I know tomorrow is your birthday. I wish I could be there to celebrate with you but since I can't...

HAPPY 33rd!!!!

Hugs and Kisses
*B*

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

Bible study now discouraged

2007-08-04T00:14:22Z

File this under hilariously perverse. In a recent issue of Our Kingdom Ministry:

http://img137.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=32302_09-07QuestionBox_122_66lo.jpg

Yup. Jehovah's Witnesses, self-proclaimed inheritors of the Bible Student movement, are now officially discouraged from independent bible study.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

marriage

2007-07-24T17:01:09Z

is it just me or have any of you ever felt bad (for lack of a better word) about being in a relationship outside of marriage?
i know that its not wrong to be... but its still difficult at times when i let myself think too much.
i still feel like its really important to me to be a wife, especially before i have children.
i want to believe that i want this because its a commitment thing and a spiritual thing, not religious.
i keep working at it.... not believing that i am doing ANY wrong....

....maybe it is that i want to commit, maybe its a romantic ideal....

i dont even know what i am really asking.
i am just really upset about this. its a long story that i am sure no one wants to hear...
but any thought that you have would likely be some help.

sigh

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 9 replies

watchtower society part of the UN from 1991-2001

2007-07-20T01:48:11Z

did you know this?

i came across these articles and wonder if anyone knows more about it...
i also saw the letter from the UN confirming that the organization was "in bed" with the wild beast but i can't find a link.

http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/ngo-un/rest-un/2001/1030j.htm
http://watchtowerinformationservice.org/un.htm

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 14 replies

Meeting with other ex-jws this saturday

2007-07-19T04:52:41Z

Okay, so I am a bit nervous but I am meeting a group of ex-JWs this Saturday afternoon. I guess I am only nervous because they are strangers . I sort of look forward to meeting people that can relate to me but I also hesitate a little because I don't want to get into some sort of theological debate either. Wish me luck....

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

"perks"

2007-07-10T08:02:35Z

what are some of your favorite "perks" with no longer being a jehovah witness?

i will go first...

* sleeping in on weekends
* premarital SEX!!
* not having to recruit people (door to door)
* no guilt with not being 'good' enough in jeh's eyes
* smoking pot occasionally
* sleeping with grrls
* choosing my own friends!!
* celebrating birthdays (it's fun!) and other holidays with my son and friends
* drinking to get drunk
* wearing whatever i want clothes wise
* being political and voting!
* not feeling guilty about swearing
* watching R rated movies and 'bad' tv shows
* focusing on my midwifery career and not being judged because i have dreams outside the organization
* no more elders meetings!!!
* masturbating

hehe, this was fun. :)

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 8 replies

Wikiproject JW

2007-06-23T23:47:44Z

I just thought i'd broadcast this to the tribe, since this is the only xJW community im actively involved with. WIkiProject Jehovah's Witnesses on WIkipedia could use more former-member perspectives to enforce NPOV -- currently the ratio of current to former is about 5:1, as far as i can tell. There's lots of room for improvement on the project, and plenty of work to be done, so if anyone with an inclination to encyclopedic writing thinks this might be a valuable use of their time, sign up for a WP account and check out the project page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 3 replies

Another documentary

2007-06-23T21:26:43Z

Did anybody watch "Knocking" on PBS? What did you think?

Apparently, this guy (an xJW) is working on a documentary that deals more with the psychology of leaving. It look pretty interesting:
http://www.hungrycreature.com/lmr.html

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 2 replies

a thought-provoking website

2007-05-14T04:24:31Z

i found this website maybe ten years ago right after i was disfellowshipped. i had found the information too intense to process so i put my manifested journal entries away.. i recently found them and am at a place when the information is absorbing nicely.

the website is on cults and there is much discussion about jw's...
www.culthelp.info/index.php

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 2 replies

District Convention Time is Here

2007-05-14T02:57:14Z

The Cow Palace is gearing up for the District Convention, again. I got baptized at one, so where did you get baptized?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 7 replies

also taken from the website (8 marks of mind control) ..

2007-05-07T16:03:12Z

Eight Marks of Mind Control (Jan Groenveld)

Totalism - All Or Nothing

Mind Control is a PROCESS of eradicating former beliefs and instituting new beliefs in their place through the use of COERCIVE persuasion. It is a PROCESS which is designed to break a person’s independence and individuality and replace it with the ideology clone. The Chinese called this process “”thought reform“” which was poorly translated into English as “”brain-washing“”.

Brain-washing is now considered to be a different process to thought reform or mind control. In brain-washing the victim knows who is the enemy. An example is American Patty Hearst who was kidnapped by a terrorist group. Through physical abuse she finally became a member of the group and took part in terrorist activities and bank robberies.

Thought control is more subtle. The victim doesn’t know who is the enemy because the enemy seems like their best friend who only has their best interests at heart.

Cults practice a more refined form of thought control than that used by the Chinese. Leading psychologist, Dr Margaret Singer, said cults do it better than the Chinese because it is easier to get people to do what you want through manipulating them with guilt and anxiety. During this process the prospective recruit is re-educated and will abandon the precepts he has learnt from life for the “truth” or “enlightenment” offered by the group. In some cults this is done over a long period of time; Other cults can bring about this change within 48 hours. Which ever way the process takes place the results are the same. The individual has undergone a total change in personality and is often unrecognisable by their family.

The process of thought control has been documented by Robert J Lifton who researched what happened to the American prisoners of the Communist Chinese. He labelled the steps which have become the standard by which to judge whether a group is using “brain-washing” or “thought reform” on it’s recruits.

The eight marks noted by Lifton are:
1. MILIEU CONTROL -

Control of the Environment and Communication

The control of human communication is the most basic feature of the thought reform environment. This is the control of what the individual sees, hears, reads, writes, experiences and expresses. It goes even further than that, and controls the individuals communication with himself - his own thoughts.

Everything other than their beliefs is excluded. The organisation appears to be omniscient. They seem to know everything that is going on. Reality is their exclusive possession. In this environment the individual is deprived of the combination of external information and internal reflection required to test reality and to maintain a measure of identity separate from his environment. The individual can feel victimised by his controllers and feel the hostility of suffocation - the resentful awareness that his striving toward new information, independent judgment and self-expression are being thwarted.

EXAMPLE - Jehovah’s Witnesses are a classical example of a closed community living within and mixing with the wider community. Because they are so well known we have used them as an example.

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* You could “go beyond the ‘truth’ - beyond what they taught. This showed you were thinking for yourself and put yourself above leadership. Those moving ahead of the Organisation are counselled
* No gatherings other than those allowed or organised by organisation (1982).
* Not making comments from your own thoughts at the meetings. Only comments from the study articles are permitted. No independent thinking is permitted.
* The organization always seemed to know what was going on in your congregation and article appeared in Watchtower publications just at the right time (“food at the proper time”). This was done through Circuit Servants reports to Headquarters.
* Use of ‘publisher record cards’ etc. to monitor activities of members. Watchtower is aware of trends etc. by strict reporting and control of individual Witnesses activities.
* Report on fellow brothers & sisters (cannot get away from organisation)
* Monitoring or observation of disfellowshipped or marked people.
* Non Witnesses are viewed as ‘bad association’
* Worldly education discouraged - better to go door-to-door
* Employment that takes up time which should be devoted to Watchtower activities is also discouraged.
* Should be ‘buying out the opportune time’ in ‘theocratic activities’.
* Taught to indoctrinate self!
* ‘Shepherding’ of those who fall behind.

2. Mystical Manipulation -

The Mystique of the Organisation

This seeks to provoke specific patterns of behaviour and emotion in such a way that these will appear to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment. For the manipulated person this assumes a near-mystical quality. This is not just a power trip by the manipulators.

They have a sense of “higher purpose” and see themselves as being the “keepers of the truth.” By becoming the instruments of their own mystique, they create a mystical aura around the manipulating institution - the Party, the Government, the Organisation, etc. They are the chosen agents to carry out this mystical imperative.

The pursuit of this mystical imperative supersedes all considerations of decency of immediate human welfare. The end justifies the means. You can lie, deceive or whatever to those outside the organiz- ation. Association with the “outside” is only to benefit their own cause in some way. Some cults like Moonies and Hare Krishna’s call their deception “heavenly deception” or “transcendental trickery”. Members believe in the ideology to such a degree that they rationalize these deceptions. Members are kept in a frenzy of cult related activities. There is little time or energy to think about their lifestyle.

“The psychology of the pawn” - This person feels unable to escape from forces he sees more powerful than himself. His way of dealing with this is to adapt to them. He learns how to anticipate problems with the organisation and to manipulate events to avoid incriminating himself.This is the person who has been in the organisation long enough, knows something is wrong, is on the verge of leaving then suddenly becomes very loyal. They sell out to the organisation and will turn in friends who may have confided in them.

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* “Theocratic strategy” - If you don’t have a right to know the truth it is OK to lie to you. (See “Insight” under ‘Lie’)
* Avoid telling prospects - No blood, holidays, family, friends, etc
* Bring someone new each time they call so prospect gets to know the people at the Kingdom Hall when they attend. (Planned spontaneity)
* The ideology supersedes the welfare of the individual. They are not involved in charities outside the group [or in the group].
* Not helping fellow memmbers to the detriment of promoting the ideology. This is more important than helping the sick & elderly.
* Prayers are general - for the organisation not the needs of the individual. See God as not interested in you as a person.
* Blessed only for effort in promoting the Kingdom.
* Ability of organisation to accomplish the ‘preaching work’ seen as evidence of Jehovah’s blessing, direction and angelic help
* Jehovah ‘sifts out’ those not truly ‘in the truth’, those without ‘the right heart condition’ which is why people leave or must be disfellowshipped. No one leaves legitimately.

3. Demand For Purity -

Everything is black & white

Pure and impure is defined by the ideology of the organization. Only those ideas, feelings and actions consistent with the ideology and policy are good. The individual conscience is not reliable. The philosophical assumption is that absolute purity is attainable and that anything done in the name of this purity is moral. By defining and manipulating the criteria of purity and conducting an all-out war on impurity (dissension especially) the organisation creates a narrow world of guilt and shame. This is perpetuated by an ethos of continuous reform, the demand that one strive permanently and painfully for something which not only does not exist but is alien to the human condition.

Under these conditions the individual expects humiliation, ostracism and punishment because of his inability to live up to the criteria and lives in a constant state of guilt and shame. Since the organisation is the ultimate judge of good and evil, this guilt and shame is used to manipulate and control members. The organization becomes an authority without limit in the eyes of members and their power is nowhere more evident that in their capacity to “forgive”.

All impurities are seen to originate from “outside” (the world). Therefore, one of the best ways to relieve himself of the burden of guilt is to denounce these with great hostility. The more guilty he feels, the greater his hatred, the more hostile is his denouncement. Organizationally this eventually leads to purges of heretics, mass hatred and religious holy wars. The group will point to the mistakes of all other belief systems while promoting their own purity. This gives the impression that their organisation is perfect, clean and pure as a people or group.

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* Dress and grooming have been laid down at various times.
* No pantsuits for ladies No beards or moustaches
* Short hair on men No coloured shirts for men
* No gold rimmed glasses Certain styles of clothing

These rules change at the whim of the leaders.

* Only 2 organisations: Jehovah’s and Satan’s. You cannot be part of both.
* World has no conscience - all dishonest
* Must keep clear of worldly celebrations (Christmas, Easter, Birthdays, Mother’s & Father’s Day, Thanksgiving etc)
* Loyalty displayed through meeting attendance and participation, field service, choice of marriage partners [strong ‘in the truth’], shunning disfellowshipped relatives and friends.

4. Cult Of Confession -

Reporting to leadership

This is closely related to the demand for purity. Confession is carried beyond the ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself. In totalist hands, confession becomes a means of exploiting, rather than offering solace for these vulnerabilities.

Totalist confession is an act of self-surrender, the expression of the merging of the individual and environment. There is a dissolution of self, talents and money. Conformity.

The cult of confession has effects quite the reverse of its ideal of total exposure; rather than eliminating personal secrets, it increases and intensifies them.

The individual becomes caught up in continuous conflict over which secrets to preserve and which to surrender, over ways to reveal lesser secrets can be revealed and ways to protect more important ones.

The cult of confession makes it virtually impossible to attain reasonable balance between worth and humility.

e.g. In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* Confessing infringements to an Elder.
* Putting in field reports (test of spirituality) [A monthly report of one’s activities for that month. How many hours door-knocking; number of books and magazines sold; number of people one studied doctrine with etc]
* Accept orders without question. Ask “How high” when told to jump.
* Any who are aware of another’s sin must put this one in to the elders or the guilt will rest on their shoulders.
* Congregation is made aware of the sin through talks and restrictions placed on guilty ones.

5. Sacred Science -

Absolute “Truth”

Their “truth” is the absolute truth. It is sacred - beyond questioning. There is a reverence demanded for the leadership. They have ALL the answers. Only to them is given the revelation of “truth”.

The ultimate moral vision becomes the ultimate science and the person who dares to criticise it, or even think criticism, is immoral, irreverent and “unscientific”.

The assumption here is not so much that man can be God, but rather that man’s IDEAS can be God.

This gives sense of security to the member. They are confident they can get the answer to the most difficult problem or question.

e.g. In Jehovah’s Witnesses you can be disfellowshipped (kicked out) for daring to question what is taught in their publications.

* Watchtower demands full devotion of members. Must not question the Organization (= questioning God)
* There is an answer to everything, if you cannot find it in the publications you must ‘wait on Jehovah’ and not ‘push ahead’.
* Organisation itself will survive Armageddon but individual Jehovah’s Witnesses have no such assurance.

6. Loading The Language -

Thought terminating cliches

Everything is compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive-sounding phrases, easily memorised and easily expressed.

There are “good” terms which represents the groups ideology and “evil” terms to represent everything outside which is to be rejected. Totalist language is intensely divisive, all-encompassing jargon, unmercifully judging. To those outside the group this language is tedious - the language of non-thought.

This effectively isolates members from outside world. The only people who understand you are other members. Other members can tell if you are really one of them by how you talk.

This narrowness of the language is constricting. The individual is linguistically deprived because language is central to the human experience and his capacities for thinking and feeling are immensely restricted.

While initially this loaded language can give a sense of security to the new believer, an uneasiness develops over time. This uneasiness may result in a withdrawal into the system and he preaches even harder to hide his problem and demonstrate his loyalty. It may also produce an inner division and the individual will publicly give the right performance while privately have his own thoughts.

Either way, his imagination becomes increasingly disassociated from his actual life experiences and may even tend to atrophy from disuse.

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* Theocratic strategy - “ark of salvation” - “new light”
* “meat in due season” - “faithful & discreet slave” - “apostate”
* “The anointed” - Book study - Christendom
* “Christ Jesus” instead of “Jesus Christ”
* ‘back calls’ now called ‘return visits’ (terminology changes indicate who might be falling behind or who is not really a member)
* “Jehovah will take care of it in his due time.”
* “It’s the truth” - doesn’t matter if they make a mistake
* Where else is there to go?
* Worldly - Governing Body - New System of Things

7. Doctrine Over Person -

Doctrine supersedes human experience

The ideological myth merges with their “truth” and the resulting deduction can be so overpowering and coercive that is simply replaces reality. Consequently past events can be altered, rewritten or even ignored to make them consistent with the current reality. This alteration is especially lethal when the distortions are imposed on the individual’s memory.

They demand character and identity of a person be reshaped to fit their clone of mentality. The individual must fit the rigid contours of the doctrinal mould instead of developing their own potential and personality.

The underlying assumption is that the doctrine - including its mythological elements - is ultimately more valid, true and real than is any aspect of actual human character or human experience. The individual under such pressure is propelled into an intense conflict with his own sense of integrity, a struggle which take place in relation to polarised feelings if sincerity and insincerity.

Absolute sincerity is demanded by the group yet this must be put to one side when changes take place the individual has to deny the original belief ever existed. Personal feelings are suppressed and members must appear to be contented and enthusiastic at all times.

Some cults believe that all illness is a result of lack of faith and evidence of sin in your life. These things have to be prayed away and medical attention is ignored as a “sign of faith.”

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* “There is no life outside the organisation” so when they see people who have made a life outside they revert back to doctrine over what they see.
* If an experience doesn’t fit, it must be demons.
* Will ignore needs of others because doctrine overrides human experience. i.e. will ignore needs of disfellowshipped or marked persons no matter how serious those needs are.
* Those who were JW’s before 1975 and are still JW’s will deny they ever believed Armageddon was due that year - even those who sold homes, delayed medical treatment etc.
* Watchtower has final authority even over personal experience. Blood transfusions, etc. Conscience matters are discussed only in the light of Watchtower doctrine (not left to individuals’ consciences).

8. Dispensing Of Existence -

Who is worthy to live

They have the right to decide who is worthy of life and who isn’t. They also decide which history books are accurate and which are not.

Those in the organisation are worthy of life; those outside worthy of death. The outsiders can be permitted to live if they change and become an insider. Members live in fear of being pronounced “dead”. They have a fear of annihilation or extinction. The emotional conflict is one of “being vs nothingness”.

Existence comes to depend upon creed (I believe, therefore I am), upon mission (I obey, therefore I am) and beyond these, upon a sense of total merger with the organisation. Should he stray from the “truth” his right to exist may be withdrawn and he is pronounced “dead”.

e.g. - In Jehovah’s Witnesses

* “Sheep and goats” - how one responds to “Christ’s brothers” decides their future. (“Christ’s brothers” are those who rule the organisation. How you respond to their message as carried by their messengers decides your eternal future).
* Elders decide who is worthy of life at Judicial Committee meetings.
* They decide who is worthy of a resurrection - (Sodom & Gommorah).
* Disfellowshiping ‘sinners’ denies them any hope for a future outside the Organisation.
* They will blatently lie to achieve goals and consider this to be “theocratic strategy”.
* Any information contrary to the Watchtower ‘system’ is not considered worth listening to or reading.
* Witnesses are forbidden to discuss such information, especially if is considered ‘apostate’ [put together by former members]

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 0 replies

Meeting Clothes

2007-05-07T15:26:42Z

Okay lets sooo do this!!

I know on several occasions I've gone on a tangent about being told that I'm looking too "seductive" in my tight clothes.

which is ridiculous. I was actually told by an Elder that "all the men were staring at me".

so please lets discuss.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 16 replies

Any fellow Cynics?

2007-05-07T03:18:01Z

Holy shit! :) I didn't know this tribe existed, a hello to all of you.

Once I left "the truth", I stopped beleiving, in general. Any others?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 6 replies

A private tribe??

2007-05-06T20:45:50Z

i was thinking that it would be nice to make this tribe private...
there is a whole lot of personal info here that i wouldnt want just anyone to read.... thats just my feeling...
how do you feel?

i think it could work if we started another tribe that people could join
once they have expressed an interest we could invite them into this one.

a decoy tribe so that no one reads our personal details...??

what do you feel about this?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 23 replies

Another Case of Abuse

2007-04-19T23:15:32Z

This kind of thing makes me sick...

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1942136820070419?feedType=RSS&pageNumber=2

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

JW dating site

2007-04-17T19:26:26Z

i found this today, thought it was interesting. I think this is probably run for commercial purposes by mormons or something. theres a few obviously fake 'bait' profiles that were probably constructed by someone unfamiliar with the society.

http://www.jwconnections.com/

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 10 replies

Sex

2007-04-17T19:09:50Z

So I have a thought that I would like to bounce off y'all.

I know that my experience being raised in the "Truth" left me with a whoooooooole lot of baggage around sex. When I left the org (was df'ed) I knew NOTHING about what was normal or not around sex and I had a shit ton of judgments, assumptions and fears that where totally shame based.
I am proud to say that I have excorsiced much of that and I enjoy a healthy, fun sex life, however I am curious. Did your congregational experiences ever have anything good to say about sex? Where there ANY healthy or educatational resources around sex in your congregations, be they private or public?

Because honestly, I would wager that their would be a resounding "Hell No" from most of us here on this tribe and I am trying to see if that judgment is true.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 24 replies

Paradise?

2007-04-13T19:14:22Z

Wel how about this….

When i was a child there was this stories out of the “my book of bible stories” about the paradise..
And the thing that still occupies my mind is the picture where a little child is playing with a lion.

We (as of most of you i think) where told that when we would live in the paradise we would be able too play with tigers and lions…..And the thougt of that can keep little boys interested in the paradise for a long time.
Also in the paradise we would live for eternity (only the little 1000 years thingie,where satan would return too earth for our final test of course) together with all the people who died before Armageddon.
I remember that I secretly hoped that my grandmother and grandfather who weren’t jw’s would die before Armageddon, because I then could be with them for eternity. <---truly sick childs mind.

Now 20 years later im thinking…………
If we could play with tigers and lions in the paradise, this would mean that all of the worlds predators would become plant eaters?
So this would mean that lions would be born without sharp teeth, Spiders don’t have too make webs anymore, Sharks are eating plankton and Bears can stand side by side with cows eating grass………………
The planet would be overgrown by animals because there aren’t any predators anymore. The whole earths eco system would change?

Then there is the tiny thing that all the people who died before Armageddon would rise from their graves…
Now how many people would that be? And together with al the plant eating animals who are overcrowding the planet it would become a heavy crowded paradise don’t you guys think?

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 19 replies

The rub.

2007-04-09T19:17:00Z

How many JW's (or Christians, or Muslims or ANY religions for that matter) would continue to practice their religion if there was no pay off at the end? No heaven, no paradise. When you die you die, and God will NOT fix ANYTHING for you.

How many do you think would continue to practice?

If you, like me, believe that the answer is not many, then pehaps you can see why I think most religious practicioners are so for stricktly selfish reasons.

P.S. Has anyone watched "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins? I posted a link on one of the threads earlier.

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 1 reply

Reasons for leaving

2007-04-02T00:30:10Z

I am curious. This should be interesting.
I quit believing in god, because of the works of Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung. Archetypes explained away to me any possibility whatsoever of there being a god.
I kept on going to the meetings, for two years or more after that. Married a baptist, and later got dfed for Joining the Navy even though by that point I hadn't even been to a meeting in over a year.
I always thought if you joined the military it was an automatic disosiation? Oh well, I was disfellowshipped...... Both are pretty much the same anyway.
Anyone else find it hard to tell someone new in the dating arena that you where kicked out of a church?
I am talking to a girl from Panama, that just recently moved to a nearby town. Needless to say, she's a hardcore Catholic, and is interested in my religious background. I just told her, that I wasn't very religious. This seemed to be a turn off to her, but I'd say it'd be worse if she knew I was kicked out of a church. lol How do you tell someone that? In English it'd be hard enough..... But I have to figure out how to tell her in Spanish, unless I can delay it until she learns english. :/

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 5 replies

JW, EX-jw child abuse site.

2007-03-31T23:40:41Z

www.silentlambs.com

posted in EX Jehovah's Witnesses - 32 replies

EX Jehovah's Witnesses's topics - tribe.net

*waves to all those who have enraged Jehovah and his seven bowls of anger*

The Bookstudy Groups are no more!

randomness i heard at a pot luck last week

Of interest to Battlestar Galactica fans

So yeah it's been 8 years JW free but...

Blingdom hall....

Good for a laugh

Casting

I am thankful for this Tribe

Happy Birthday To ME!

A Movie I Want to See

Wow this seems Kinda weird

Jeff Foxworthy

Request for Referral to a Therapist?

cult experience videos

Are Sundays Tough for You?

Does this resonate???

in service...

Work ethic

Mormies

Frustration!

pittsburgh, anyone?

job & the lolcats...

WTF...

Is this tribe thoroughly dead?

JW's, flood, etc., thoroughly trashed...

teen jw dies...really...

The Crazy

My JW family is NOT supportive... do any of you have support from your families who are in the 'truth'?

Woah

The Bell!!!

...friends....

what now?

JW child abuse national news!

scripture Jay-dubs use for disfellowshipping actually proves thier method wrong

tribe meet up at KH?

recent Awake

We've lost one of our best. :(

demonized star wars stuff

holidays

demonized...

Ex jw meet up @BM

by birth or conversion...

who what where when

C.E.A.S.E. victims/survivors of sexual, physical and spiritual abuse

Burning, burning, burning...

Anyone here go to burning man?

Hey! Happy B-Day Travis!!!

Bible study now discouraged

marriage

watchtower society part of the UN from 1991-2001

Meeting with other ex-jws this saturday

"perks"

Wikiproject JW

Another documentary

a thought-provoking website

District Convention Time is Here

also taken from the website (8 marks of mind control) ..

Meeting Clothes

Any fellow Cynics?

A private tribe??

Another Case of Abuse

JW dating site

Sex

Paradise?

The rub.

Reasons for leaving

JW, EX-jw child abuse site.

waves to all those who have enraged Jehovah and his seven bowls of anger